Sujiatun concentration camp fact or fiction?

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Tue, 19 Dec 2006 19:36:00 +0000

Falun Gong's Sujiatun Propaganda Is Dead:

http://news.google.com/news?q=sujiatun

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:12:00 +0000

Not a Single Sujiatun Death Is In Falun Gong's Case List

Here's what Falun Gong propaganda outlet clearwiscom said, nealy 3,000 disciples were presecuted to death.

Do you see the problem? Not a single death is from Sujiatun.

So where does this leave Epoch Times NY's allegation that 6,000 where kept in a concentration camp in Sujiatun, and 4,000 were subjected to vivisection?

IMHO Falun Gong is their own worst enemy. Why don't they just stick with the truth and go with these alleged cases and build them up with facts, rather than fabricating sensational allegation?

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:36:00 +0000

Langley BC City Council Rejects Falun Gong Propaganda

On October 16 local disciple Shirley Chen and company went to Langely city council and asked for declaration to condemn China for alleged vivisection, and presented the Kilgour report as evidence.

When this news came up on Google, I immediately fired off my OpEd letter detailing the contrarian evidence to the Mayor and Council. I am going to claim credit for their informed decision on Monday:

http://www.langleypolitics.com/2006/10/council-evening-notes-oct-30-2006.html

"Councillor Richter's other motion on falun gong did not draw a seconder."

Another win for the sane voices in the Asian-American community.

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:44:00 +0000

On Oct 12 VOA interviewed long time anti-CCP activist Harry Wu, who investigated Falun Gong's vivisection claim - and found it not credible.

Transcripts can be found here:
http://blog.chinesenewsnet.com/?p=16888
and here:
www.voanews.com/chinese/online_chat_20061012.cfm

VOA: We received an email question: Mr. Wu, is China harvesting organs from Falun Gong disciples?

Wu: To date there is no evidence of harvesting of organs from Falun Gong disciples, only some claims by Falun Gong disciples.

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:48:00 +0000

From The Australian:

Chinese dissident doubts organ Harvest claim
Rowan Callick, China correspondent
August 14, 2006

HARRY Wu, one of the most respected Chinese dissident leaders, has cast crucial doubt on Falun Gong claims that body parts have been extracted from 6000 followers of the sect at a secret concentration camp in northeast China.

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Mon, 18 Sep 2006 20:19:00 +0000

From Canadian paper The Globe and Mail:

Chinese dissident disputes organ-harvest allegations
Key witness's evidence fabricated, Wu says
GEOFFREY YORK

Wednesday, August 30, 2006, Page A1

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Wed, 06 Sep 2006 20:38:00 +0000

More info on the congressional brief cited earlier.

The title of the brief is "The Collateral of Suppression", a report critical of China written for Senator Dianne Feinstein, member of US Congressional Executive Committee on China (CECC).

Here's another relevant exerpt:

"Specialist in Asian Affairs at the Congressional Research Service, Thomas Lum, noted that the evidence could have easily been distorted. The individuals calling the hospitals were all affiliated with FLG, and Lum said that it is unlikely for doctors and officials working for the state to casually divulge such sensitive and damaging information so easily.

Moreover, Lum’s efforts to contact both the Chinese journalist and doctor’s wife have been fruitless, as FLG members direct all communications toward these individuals and they often do not respond. Harry Wu, a longtime political activist known for his hardline anti-PRC views, announced on August 9, 2006 that he would challenge the allegations made by FLG about targeted organ harvesting, especially the claim about the Sujiatun concentration camp.

About the report, the South China Morning Post reports, “Mr. Wu, who has spent 15 years gathering evidence on the harvesting of organs from executed Chinese prisoners, said the information was based on the testimony of two witnesses, neither of whom had first-hand information. He believed the reports were fabricated.” Wu had tried to follow up with the witnesses just as Lum had—to the same futility. In the face of these criticisms, including from even Wu, who formerly held friendly relations with FLG, all things considered the allegations FLG has made about a targeted campaign of state-sponsored genocide are most likely untrue."

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Mon, 28 Aug 2006 05:21:00 +0000

Melbourne Australia based democracy activist Mr. Zhang Hetse explains why Falun Gong's assertion that increase in trasnplant procedures prove increase in organ harvesting, is questionable:

http://www.observechina.net/info/artshow.asp?ID=40224

1) Kilgour report has the problem of "cherry picking" numbers from Chinese sources to make their case. When a number is advantageous to their case, they accept it without reservation.

2) Linking increase in transplant procedures to increase in available organs ignores the reality in China. 10 years ago there're very few Chinese hospitals hase the medial know-how to perform one or type of organ transplant.

The increase in number of transplant procecures can be explained with medical advancement in more hospitals, allowing use of more types of organs that has been available but can not be transplanted previousely due to lack of technical expertise, equipment, facilities, etc..

[And finally, what Falun Gong can not explain away is, Wu and Zhang have been long time Chinese dissident, and they have no reason to cooperate with Beijing.]

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Fri, 25 Aug 2006 08:05:00 +0000

Mounting contrarian facts against Falun Gong's allegation is gainging media notice. I am glad to say among others, "Sujiatun Fact Or Hoax" has made it on "Top Scoops" in NZ's Scoop Independent News:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0608/S00251.htm

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Tue, 22 Aug 2006 06:53:00 +0000

More on Chinese dissident Harry Wu's analysis of Falun Gong's allegation:

http://www.cicus.org/news/newsdetail.php?id=6492

[Analysis & Opinion]
Without concrete and substantiated evidence, such reports are not credible. Also, the description of "underground concentration camp" is in conflict with what Peter and Annie said. I spent 19 years as a political prisoner in China's forced labor camps and have experienced many transfers. No transfer occurred like the one described.

III. Conclusion

1) No concrete or substantiated evidence, such as documents or photos, have been provided to support the witness' statements.

2) Both Annie and Peter, who are now in the US, refuse to reveal their real names despite that fact that they no longer reside in China. This makes it difficult for the international community to corroborate their testimonies and makes their statements less strong. Since they claim to have knowledge about thousands of people whose lives may be in danger it is essential that they be more open about who they are and what they know.

3) The claim that Falun Gong practitioners' live organs are being harvested is diverting attention from real, substantiated facts. China has been harvesting organs from executed prisoners for more than 20 years and this has been proven. This is an issue that the Falun Gong never mentions, and its allegations about live harvesting or reverse-organ donations remain unconfirmed.

4) The Chinese Communist Government is an evil regime that commits many atrocities including the persecution of the Falun Gong. However, the logic does follow that because the government has outlawed the spiritual group it has created Sujiatun and other concentration camps to kill and harvest the organs of live Falun Gong practitioners. Without proof this is not logical reasoning.

5) Those who doubt the existence of Sujiatun, including myself, should not be criticized as ¡°obstacles to the investigation¡± or be accused of "cooperating with Beijing".

6) Today, there is not much national or international attention to the Sujiatun issue. This does not imply that the international community does not value human rights. Nor does it mean that the world has been pressured by Beijing to remain silent, or that is has taken the side of the Communist regime. When I received Falun Gong's report, I personally arranged for Sujiatun to be investigated right away, include the hospital, Kangjiasan Prison and Jiutai Laojiao Camp. Officers and staff from the US embassy in Beijing and the US Consulate in Shenyang visited the Sujiatun site two times. Overseas media also sent reporters to investigate the case. These actions show that people treated the Sujiatun issue very seriously. However, the Falun Gong claims that "Sujiatun Auschwitz" exists have yet to substantiate and appear to be nothing more than political propaganda.

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Tue, 15 Aug 2006 07:27:00 +0000

Couple details on US government's investigation debunking Falun Gong's Sujiatun allegation:

- Congressional Executive Committee on China brief commented on the reliability of the Kilgour report, and Falun Gong's accusation:

http://exilyn.blogspot.com/2006/08/latest-and-last-report-for-senator.html

"Emma Ashburn, a research associate at the Congressional-Executive Committee on China (CECC), said that the Matas-Kilgour report really “offered nothing new” in terms of evidence on the matter of organ harvesting. The evidence they did collect, namely the phone calls and testimonies, were dubious in their objectivity.

Specialist in Asian Affairs at the Congressional Research Service, Thomas Lum, noted that the evidence could have easily been distorted. The individuals calling the hospitals were all affiliated with FLG, and Lum said that it is unlikely for doctors and officials working for the state to casually divulge such sensitive and damaging information so easily. Moreover, Lum’s efforts to contact both the Chinese journalist and doctor’s wife have been fruitless, as FLG members direct all communications toward these individuals and they often do not respond."

- Congression Research Service paper on State Department's investigation:

http://www.usembassy.it/pdf/other/RL33437.pdf

American officials from the U.S. Embassy in Beijing and the U.S. consulate in Shenyang visited the area as well as the hospital site on two occasions — the first time unannounced and the second with the cooperation of PRC officials — and after investigating the facility “found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital.”

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Fri, 04 Aug 2006 06:41:00 +0000

So who's paying for all this propaganda from Epoch Times?

IMHO the financial connection between Falun Gong and Epoch Times is not a secret. Here's the money trail found in non-profit declarations (Form 990, Page 2, Part III c):

Southern USA Falun Dafa Association. $10,350 were given to Epoch Times in 2002, $22,700 in 2003, $14,750 in 2004:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2002/760/692/2002-760692185-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2003/760/692/2003-760692185-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2004/760/692/2004-760692185-1-9.pdf

Falun Dafa Association of New England. $57,609 were spent on computer and print media, $97,755 in 2003, $116,823 in 2004:
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2002/043/576/2002-043576893-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2003/043/576/2003-043576893-1-Z.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/2004/043/576/2004-043576893-02038ba1-9.pdf

(These are but two examples of FLG non-profits in US.)

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Wed, 05 Jul 2006 20:30:00 +0000

Harry Wu of Laogai Research Foundation released an open letter on his investigation of Sujiatun that started 2nd week of March; he found the allegation not credible:

http://www.zonaeuropa.com/20060806_1.htm

Wu also covered the political stuff, like when his conclusion didn't agree with Falun Gong, they turned on him.

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Tue, 13 Jun 2006 20:04:00 +0000

Sujiatun story that came from years ago, and wasn't about Sujiatun then?

Here's an example of Falun Gong people "snowballing" these heresay and unverified tall tales and twisting them into bigger and bigger accusation, thanks to "The Big Lie" principle.

Here's a March 2006 "Sujiatun Auschwitz" article:

(warning: distrubing autopsy photo)

http://falunhr.org/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=1495

"Mr. Wang passed away at age 47. However, two of hospital's doctors took out his hearts and brain. The photo shows that his body had been cut open."

This story and appears to be the same Wang Bin from a 2000 Clear Widom article:

http://clearwisdom.net/emh/articles/2000/11/16/6164.html

However, the original story in 2000 stated autopsy was performed on Wang for murder investigation, and the incisions around the neck area, as shown in the photo, was to see if Wang was strangled. It is standard procedure to reveal the hyoid bone and tissue.

If you look at the photo, you'll see most of the incisions are around the neck area, yet there's no neck organ for transplantation. I showed the photo to a pathologist, and he disagree with the March 2006 article's claim.

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Tue, 16 May 2006 00:44:00 +0000

Here's another example that speaks on Epoch Times' propaganda factor.

In a recent Clear Wisdom piece it reported Amnesty International's endorsement of the "Sujiatun Auschwitz" story by citing an appearance by an AI coordinator named Laura Nuechterlein.

I decided to contact Ms. Nuechterlein. Turns out she is the coordinator of a local AI chapter (Group 4 in Seattle, consists of 3-4 people) that meets in local library once a month.

What Ms. Nuechterlein wrote back was not surprising. Here're some quotes from her reply:

- I was careful to indicate that AI has not made any statement on the death camp allegations

- I barely mentioned Falun Gong at all

- I agree with you that the story was pretty dubious to begin with

- In no way did we endorse the idea of the "Chinese Auschwitz."

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Wed, 10 May 2006 02:01:00 +0000

One of those Falun Gong group that pretends to be a NGO, WOIPFG, stated on a 4/30 press:

"waiting time for a suitable kidney is lengthy. Even in the US where the sense of public organ donation is commonplace, a patient in the New England area usually needs to wait three to seven years in average for a kidney transplant"

This statement is very misleading. According to 1995-2004 clincal data compiled by USTransplant.org:

http://www.ustransplant.org/annual_reports/current/105_dh.htm

- USA with 1/4 of China's population, performs over twice as many liver transplants yearly (10,000 in 2004.)
- 2004 data shows top 10% of wait list average 10 day wait
- 2004 data shows top 25% of wait list average 43 day wait

- Majority of median wait time, for all type of transplantation, do not exceed one year.

I have also found a transplant center in US that advertise very short wait, and the reason given is "no competition for organ":

http://www.lifepoint-sc.org/articles/theheartofthematter.html

"At MUSC, heart transplant patients on average wait about 2 1/2 months for a heart, Van Bakel said. Nationally, he said, the average wait time is about eight months."

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Sat, 29 Apr 2006 17:38:00 +0000

More info on the "White House Heckler" Dr. Wang Wenyi and her link to the "Sujiatun Auschwitz" haox:

Dr. Wang is the lead researcher for Epoch Times NY's conveniently timed "Sujiatun Auschwitz" allegation that has since being discredited:

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&amp;m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html

Given Dr. Wang's profession as a pathologist, and New York's recent string of grisly illegal cadaver organ harvesting cases, it's not hard to see how that could have pushed an already fragile psyche weakened by cultish political teaching, over the edge.

She basically put two and two together and rehashed the 1970's era anti-communist tall tale of people sentenced to vivisection.

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:54:00 +0000

A blogger with first hand experience on Epoch Times' reliability:

http://holidarity.blogspot.com/2006/04/organ-harvesting-controversy.html

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:57:00 +0000

US government announced finding of its investigation - no evidence of concentration camp:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060415/pl_afp/uschinasectpolitics_060415004729

(Update: official link thanks to smalldeadanimals http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2006&m=April&x=20060416141157uhyggep0.5443231&t=livefeeds/wf-latest.html)

"Officers and staff from our embassy in Beijing and consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions," McCormack said.

"In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital."

Similiar finding was reported by The Australian weeks prior:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046-7583,00.html

"It appears the claims by Falun Gong have been at least substantially exaggerated. Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed"

chliu528@hotmail.com (bobby fletcher) — Sun, 09 Apr 2006 22:14:00 +0000

Is Sujiatun concentration camp allegation true? I believe it is a hoax.

While I agree China’s human rights abuse should be examined, as with all human rights abusers in the world including ourselves - making up story by lifting data from websites and writing allegory of "Schindler’s List" is not the way.

If we in the West can not be precise with our facts, only resort to nefarious indictment, who will take what we say seriousely?

First, it appears to be a story that is created by Epoch Times NY, and drummed up in cyberspace by googlebombing. Also the timing couldn't be better.

[I will address these later]

After noticing some blogs from other netters questioning this, I looked on search engines for information, and came accross this:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,18669046-7583,00.html

"It appears the claims by Falun Gong have been at least substantially exaggerated. Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed."

[FYI above article is also very critical of the Chinese government]

Above seems to be vetting other news that came from a Hong Kong newspaper that got its subsidy cut off by the Chinese government when they published harshily on the Tiananmen incident against the Chinese government:

[For translation help try world.altavista.com]

* Lanzhou University student registry doesn't have students named in Epoch's article; no students have been arrested as alleged:

http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/27/ZM-543827.htm

* Reporters investigating concentration camp at Sujiatun stroke clinic found no evidence; no incinirator, but a boiler for heating; only undergrond structure is the septic tank:

http://www.takungpao.com/news/06/03/31/ZM-545907.htm

Also, as other bloggers pointed out, components of the Epoch Times' story can be traced back to various unrelated news and facts from China.

* Pay attention to the 6000 victicm number published by Epoch. Coincidently this number also exists in the Sujiatun stroke clinic's webpage (2nd paragraph of the About page, part of the hospital's admission statistics):

http://www.thrombusres-cn.net/myjs/myjs.htm

Also, the stroke hospital is a joint venture with a company affaliated with the Malaysian government:

http://crc.gov.my/clinicalTrial/documents/Proposal/TCM_Stroke%20TrialProtocol%20synopsis.pdf

* The "underground concentration camp" element seems to be inspired by a WWII archelogical find at Sujiatun in August 2005.

A photographer was photogrphing WWII historical sites at Sujiatun when he discovered a 2000 meter long, 3 meter wide tunnel (half of it under water) built up by the Japanese army, and some relics including human remains from early 1900's:

http://news.sohu.com/20050812/n226651351.shtml

http://www.u-web.cn/PersonalPCSite/complex562_detail.jsp?itemid=175862&contenttype=TextImage&isindex=0&indexchannelid=-1

So how did a story like this ever got so big, the UN had to deal with it? First, appealing to our society's fear of anti-semitism was a brilliant ploy. And it doesn't hurt to drum it up in cybersapce by "googlebombing" the story. Below is a very simple test (I wonder if Google News holds its sources to a higher journalistic standard or ethics?)

* News search without Epoch Times' googlebomb:
http://news.google.com/news?q=Sujiatun+-Epoch+-Times,+-NY
(14 links)

with googlebomb:
http://news.google.com/news?q=Sujiatun
(put "Epoch Times, NY" back, about 72)

* Web search without Epoch Times' googlebomb:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Sujiatun+-Epoch+-Times,+-NY
(about 75,700)

with googlebomb:
http://www.google.com/search?q=Sujiatun
(put "Epoch Times, NY" back, about 173,000)

Like I said, the timing couldn't be better. Sujiatun is near Shenyang City, and it's about to unveil an international exposition:

http://www.expo2006sy.gov.cn

And is it a coincidence that Chinese leader is vising? Make a big stink about it, right?

http://news.google.com/news?q=hu+jintao+visit